Curse

Trvth Jvstice · May 09, 2008, 10:23 PM // 22:23

I don't believe having different PVP/PVE skills will effect GW in a bad way at all. PVPers will still have their balanced skills and surely ANet will know better than to make PVE any easier than it is. This should make their job easier - in that they wont have to be concerned about any future PVE skill changes causing an imbalance in PVP.

The first changes I'd like to see: Equipping UB causes the users game to alt-F4 - MMs get their old minion armies back with pre nerf Soul Reaping - Make Tactics useful again.

Snow Bunny · May 09, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Wow.

Well, GG PvE.

Nice work on advancing the engine.

But shame for catering to the demands of the weak and pathetic.

Molock · May 09, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Sounds great and I love the idea as long as anet doesn't think its a free ticket to render certain skills useless.

street peddler · May 09, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

we intend to keep as many skills unchanged as we can.

they just want to kill splinter weapon imo, lol, massive pve backlash..

kobey · May 09, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

...The first changes I'd like to see: Equipping UB causes the users game to alt-F4 ...

Thats abit extreme

Maybe try this: Equipping UB will cause players to drop their swords and shields.
Reason: Bears don't use swords and shields.

english storm · May 09, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Excellent news, i hope they continue with this idea in GW2. People who PvE should not be punished with nerfs because of abuse in PvP and the same goes for the other way round.

MoriaOrc · May 09, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Disclaimer: I do PvE and low end PvP.

I've thought for a long time that this would be a generally poor solution to the problems it's intended to fix. That said, it seems like they're approaching it with all due caution, and I'm willing to see how they give it a try. There's a few things I hope they do (some of which it sounds like they're at least considering) as they begin balancing skills in this way:

Don't use this as an excuse not to balance PvE. Although I've pretty much given up on them balancing for PvE since EotN preview weekend when I got my first and last try (outside the mission) of UB, I still have hope that they'll start working on skill balances for PvE. I agree with many players who see any move to acknowledge "PvE Balance" that doesn't start with a nerf to some of the other ridiculously OP things EotN introduced as being somewhat hypocritical.

Balances should apply to both sides as much as possible. If this just means that every skill update from here on out only happens to the PvP areas (and I consider this a serious possibility after the last balance update revert), then I will be very disappointed. If a skill is overpowered in PvP, it is most likely overpowered in PvE as well. In fact, I wouldn't mind PvE still seeing toned down versions of the nerfs PvPers get.

Don't revert old nerfs. I'm not as firm on this one, but I wouldn't like to see ANet go back and revert every nerf PvErs complained about. Many of them were needed on both sides. I see people asking for skills like Incoming, or even Soul Reaping, to be reverted to older (broken) functionality. We don't need those skills back. Some have PvE skills to replace them (TNTF removes the need for Incoming for example, and having both in Incoming's pre-nerf state would be too much in a build that's already very strong). Some were needed on both sides, whether some PvErs like it or not. That said, being able to give Morghan back WY would be nice.

Don't do PvE only buffs. We have enough OP PvE skills at it is. Like above, if a skill needs buffing it's usually underpowered on both sides. Don't just buff a few skills to make a new set of "PvE Only" super-skills. That's not what PvE needs.

There should be a visual distinction on the skill bar. Just like the lock icon over PvE skills in PvP areas, there needs to be a visual representation of the fact that the skill you are using is no longer the same as it was in a PvE area. This will help a little with the inevitable confusion this update will cause. My recomendation: a small icon in the one corner, probably on the bottom (think: enchantments/hexes/dagger chains). This one's obvious and I'm sure they've already got something in mind, though.

Redfeather1975 · May 09, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

I posted in another forum how I am on the bandwagon that this will be a good thing. I've played other games that did this and it makes balance easier.

And by balance for PvE, I mean changing skills in PvE so that the community accepted builds increase, and people will actually be encouraged to use their 100s of skill points to make a greater variety of builds better suited to tackling particular areas, rather than using the same overpowered builds over and over.

Zinger314 · May 09, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I posted in another forum how I am on the bandwagon that this will be a good thing. I've played other games that did this and it makes balance easier.

I would agree...if ArenaNet actually balanced competantly. (i.e. more than one person doing the blunt of the work, reasonable buffs/nerfs, and an equal balance of buff/nerfs.)

From what I can tell, ArenaNet is just planning for alternatives to Ursan.

quickmonty · May 09, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Chill. Right now it's just in the initial stages and we have no idea what skills will change, or by how much, or anything else ..... really, except that they are trying an idea the MAY be implemented in GW2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Why bother?

The only skill still used in PvE is Ursan. Everything else only applies to PvP, so this separation is done already.

Ignorance is bliss! I, and others that I know, do a lot of PvE and have NEVER used Ursan except the mission where you have to use it. Check your facts before making an all encompassing statement like that.

Nightmares Hammer · May 09, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

GG ANET!!!!!

Screw the QQers.

Elena · May 09, 2008, 11:16 PM // 23:16

hit
hit
WATCH YOURESELF
come back to meee my oh so trustfull watch youreself let us protect the squishy casters once more *spreads arms*

Shinjinbukai · May 09, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

I hope I get a couple of farming skills back with this one xD

Longasc · May 09, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

A proper balancing of PvE would include:

- nerfing Ursan Blessing a lot
- toning down the effects of consumables or removing them
- nerfing several more PvE skills
- improving mob builds and area design
- making the game more challenging
- a very harsh nerf of 55 hp and some other farming builds, causing farmers to faint and die

But I fear the balancing could end like this:

Barrage now shoots nuclear splinter bombs in PvE.
Splinter Weapon itself gets buffed despite being great already.
Light of Deliverance becomes godly again.

What else skills are hot favorites to be "balanced" this way?

I would like stronger blood magic, but then they would have to buff the whole blood line for PvE, not likely to be the first thing they do.

They will start with a few skills and then we will have two games: GW PvE and GW PvP.

Maybe they finally get the idea to implement PvE and PvP in one game, not so seperated as currently, or just make two different games:

GW2 and GW2: Tournament.

Hugh.

Incandecree · May 09, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

they skill balanced Light of Deliverance for the sake of PvP. In the aftermath of said balance they had to change a henchman's skillbar because the skill sucked in PvE.

What about the change to Recall? That addressed a big imbalance in the PvP realm but affected how it was used in at least one elite mission.

I like the idea that they are trying this out. As someone said we are beta-testing GW2 features.

What I am worried about is that they go overboard on either or both sides on the balancing/reverting of skills

Heck, maybe they will buff the much coveted Balthazar's Pendulum</sarcasm>

As for Ursan, the only place I may use it is in FoW. I prefer running any other class than Ursan.

El Presidente · May 09, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimme

I think this is good

No more suffering from PvP nerfs =D

True. This only took how long to implement?

Trvth Jvstice · May 09, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

From what I can tell, ArenaNet is just planning for alternatives to Ursan.

Negatory, what's the fastest way to make a game un-fun? -make it too easy. -I know many already think PVE is too easy, but for the masses it isn't. I expect changes that will make PVE more difficult in some of med difficulty areas. They will have to if they are going to revert some of the old favorite skills. Can you imagine how easy some areas would be - using Heroes, PVE skills, etc - with some of the old skills reverted? I think many of you will be in for a surprise when these skill changes come into effect.

Monk In The Box · May 09, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Thank you A-Net.

Windstriker · May 09, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

So they finally reached the point where it has become too difficult to balance PvP and PvE aspects with the same set of skills. This can go good or bad depending on the direction the developers take with this. At least their first move into this idea is a smart one by starting out very slowly.

snaek · May 09, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

You never "had to" run Ursan to clear an area. You had to have competient skill bars. And good monks (which are a rarity in the Ursan pugs, energy management, protection prayers, what's that?).

yet everyone still uses it

(and no, i dun use ursan)